Fitting Forward Facing Rear Seats & Belts
Sunday, September 24th, 2006
This seems to be a very topical issue at the moment, given the European regulations changing this month, outlawing the use of sideways facing seatbelts for children under 12 years/135cm height and bringing in other new requirements for children’s seating. There are a lot of discussions on the Land Rover forums about this, so here’s what I have done. It complies with all the new regs and is very practical.
I used Exmoor Trim forward facing fold-up seats, aka Trakkers. As you saw in the previous update, these are mounted, in my case, at the very back of my 109, but they can be mounted in 88s, 90s, the back of 109 and 110 Station Wagons or anywhere in the back of 109 and 110 Hard Tops (you could comfortably fit four in a 109/110 Hard Top).
The photos show the mounting bracket that attaches to the wheel box. The bracket sits in direct contact with the wheel box, and its integral hinge pins overhang the floor. The hinge pins face rearward, preventing the seat sliding forwards in use. At the back of the bracket, you can see a tab (with a small unused bolt hole) also overhanging the floor. This tab prevents the seat sliding aft and off the hinge pins when in use. With the seat folded up, the seat is no longer obstructed by the tab, enabling it to be slid to the aft to remove it in seconds. The photo also shows how the edge of the tool box lid (rear of left wheel box, where fitted) had to be modified. The lid had to be moved outboard to be useable with the bracket fitted. A furniture lock from a DIY store allows the lid to be locked. To retain a reasonable size opening, the hinged side of the aperture was also cut back and extended outboard as far as possible, though this does mean that the lid cannot be opened more than 80 degrees, requiring a holding open catch on the body capping to prevent it closing unwantedly.
Some forum posters are concerned that the adjacent seats are too close together, preventing access between them from the rear door. When I had previously fitted these seats, prior to the rebuild project, I had found this a bit of a problem (the seats were permanently deployed with child seats on them). As a solution, I moved them both 5″ outboard by making a 1″ packer to sit between the bracket and wheel box, allowing the seat base frame to sit above the wheel box. This still allowed the seat to be folded out of the way as before. It also had the benefit of further improving the seatbelt geometry such that even I (as a tall man) fitted the belts perfectly. The only down side is the loss of 1″ headroom for tall passengers and the minor intrusion of the wheel box into the leg room, but both proved of little consequence.
The seatbelts are bolted, like the seat brackets, through the wheel box with spreader plates below. The buckle stalk anchors are by the rear door and also have spreaders underneath the floor and tub cross-member. I used Securon inertia reel belts, also from Exmoor Trim. These come with an assortment of brackets and spreader plates, as well as all the required fixings. Unlike Exmoor Trim, I have used anchor points that place the shoulder bolt above the gutter rail in order to have the harness’ shoulder strap lie correctly over the shoulder, rather than across the armpit like Exmoor’s setup. This was achieved by using the lower anchor points from SIII front seatbelts upside-down.
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September 24th, 2006 at 15:46
excellent piece, very informative, well done and thanks
Hubber
September 24th, 2006 at 21:14
I hope it helps.
February 12th, 2010 at 19:02
Hi Nick – what size did you make the spreader plates for the seatbelts and foor mounted anchors?
February 15th, 2010 at 09:59
Hi Steve,
The spreader plates were included in the seat belt kits. They are roughly 2×2″ squares with a central bolt hole, made from 3mm steel. I was content to use these with my toughened floor and wheel arches, but with the standard floor and wheel arches I would have gone for bigger spreaders (4×4″ of 5mm, probably).
June 21st, 2010 at 23:53
Nick, I am concerned that as you have mounted the inertia units at an angle, the locking action will be disabled. They should be mounted on the level. Great site !
Regards,
Alan.
June 22nd, 2010 at 12:05
Normally you’d be right to be concerned, Alan, but that particular type of Securon belts (no longer stocked by Exmoor Trim) have adjustment units for two planes of mounting to allow for just this sort of scenario – that’s what the protruding nodes from the sides of the reel drums are for. The large node rotates in the same axis as the reel itself and allows the reel to be mounted on and inboard/outboard cant, even allowing the reel to be mounted horizontally or inverted, while a second smaller knob on the first node allows for the reel to be mounted with a front/rear slant as I have. These adjusters are visible to the left of the reel unit in the seat belt photo.
The belts were tested before use and have passed numerous MoT inspections.
June 24th, 2011 at 01:05
Thanks Nick… very helpful as I process my options for my 110 defender 3dr.
Have a goodie!
June 26th, 2011 at 17:52
I’m always pleased to see my ideas used as an inspiration or spring board for others – it’s what this blog is all about. The versatility and simplicity of Land Rovers makes the sharing of ideas a great way to get your ideal vehicle, and I’m always keen to see what others have done that I can use or adapt too.
Thanks for following the blog.
November 15th, 2011 at 16:23
Hi Nick My Partner has just got a 2011 defender and we are looking for some one to fit rear inward facing seat belts. We are finding it very difficult and i wonder do you fit them for other people or do you know any one else who does. (PLEASE) Ian
November 15th, 2011 at 18:08
Hi Ian,
Congratulations on the new Land Rover!
I’m a little perplexed by your question. Any Defender would be factory fitted with suitable restraints for the relevant seat, so I’m guessing you’re retro-fitting seats to a commercial bodied vehicle. It’s important to understand that the EU regulations on passenger seating and restraints changed in 2007, requiring that all seats face forward. The intention to fit inward facing restraints suggests inward facing seats, and if your vehicle is indeed constructed post-2007, then these would breech the regulations. If that is the case, then your insurance would also probably invalidated.
If you are fitting inward facing seats (be they new from suppliers like Exmoor Trim or second hand from another Land Rover), and your vehicle is post-2007, then please check with VOSA to verify the legality of those seats. Don’t ever just trust the advice of vendors as they may have made mistakes in understanding your details or in interpreting the regulations.
For all that, if you are retro-fitting seats to a commercial body, then the best option would be to acquire the genuine parts, ideally new (especially the belts themselves), or second hand (be very wary of second hand belts). Failing that, Exmoor Trim sell good alternatives, just as I used in the photos above. As I said, I don’t think much of their seat belt geometry, but it can be resolved using standard parts. The quality of their components seems satisfactory, though.
I’d be very happy to help you fit the seats or restraints if you bring everything down to Bedford (UK), but please understand that I am an enthusiast and amateur, not a professional, so don’t hold/sell any parts and also cannot be held liable for any issues resulting from the installation (correct or otherwise), so though it would mean you get free installation, it would be very wise to spend a small amount on an inspection by someone suitably qualified such as a VOSA inspector or even just an MoT tester before using the seats. That’ll still be much cheaper than having them garage fitted (probably by an untrained mechanic or apprentice), and your insurers are very likely to insist on a certificate or letter-headed engineer’s report on the installation anyway.
Use the email contact function on this site to send me your phone number if this fitting option suits you, or even just to talk about potential ideas.
Nick.